Navigating the U.S. well being care system can really feel like a “battle royale.” From difficult unfair medical payments to wrestling with insurance coverage corporations over pre-authorizations, sufferers must be prepared to stay up for themselves.
So, how will you keep cool and assured in these fights? On this rebroadcast of “An Arm and a Leg” from 2020, host Dan Weissmann hits up self-defense coach Lauren Taylor about methods for standing up for your self and hears how she utilized her strategy in her personal battle for well being care protection.
Dan Weissmann
Host and producer of “An Arm and a Leg.” Beforehand, Dan was a workers reporter for Market and Chicago’s WBEZ. His work additionally seems on All Issues Thought-about, Market, the BBC, 99 % Invisible, and Reveal, from the Middle for Investigative Reporting.
Credit
Emily Pisacreta
Producer
Adam Raymonda
Audio Wizard
Ellen Weiss
Editor
Marian Wang
Editor
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Transcript: Self-Protection 101: Preserving Your Cool Whereas You Battle
Notice: “An Arm and a Leg” makes use of speech-recognition software program to generate transcripts, which can include errors. Please use the transcript as a instrument however test the corresponding audio earlier than quoting the podcast.
Dan: Hey there – Earlier than we begin, I simply wish to say THANK YOU for supporting our work right here. Because of you, we beat all of our targets for the tip of 2023.
Which means we collected each greenback of matching funds that had been on supply — and since so many of us grew to become donors for the primary time, we earned a bonus from the Institute for Nonprofit Information.
So we’re beginning this yr in fine condition, which is nice, as a result of we’ve received some massive tasks deliberate.
Thanks a lot.
Now, in much less pleasant information, I’m preventing just a little bit with my insurance coverage firm proper now. Or … is it the hospital billing workplace I’m preventing with? Every one retains sending me again to the opposite. It’s … a very good time.
There’s a First Support Package e-newsletter in all this, however for now I’m struggling to search out the hours for all of the cellphone calls, and to maintain my composure.
On that final observe– holding my composure — this looks like a very good time to deliver again what stands out as the most helpful episode we’ve ever carried out, from late 2020.
You prepared? Right here we go.
I received a voicemail from a listener named Amanda Jaffe. She’s been listening to our episodes about people who battle again towards insurance coverage corporations and outrageous payments. And he or she says she’s type of a bulldog herself on these items. BUT she says there’s a snag. Possibly you may relate — I undoubtedly can.
Amanda Jaffe: Once I name the insurance coverage corporations, I begin to get offended to some extent the place possibly it’s unproductive. So I would like some steerage on the best way to stay cool when calling insurance coverage corporations. Thanks. I’d really want the assistance.
Dan: YES. I’ve been eager about this for months and months. We’ve been listening to from individuals who battle and battle, and typically win, and a few issues preserve getting clearer:
ONE: You’re in all probability gonna spend a LOT of time on the cellphone, lots of it on maintain, and lots of it with individuals who, for one purpose or one other, will not be gonna appear that useful.
And TWO, I preserve listening to time and again: You’ve gotta preserve your cool. OK, positive.
However I preserve questioning repeatedly: OK, HOW?
And at the moment, I feel I’ve received precisely the individual I’ve been on the lookout for.
Lauren Taylor: My identify is Lauren Taylor. I run Defend Your self in Washington, DC, and we educate individuals abilities for stopping harassment, abuse, and assault.
Dan: So for like a YEAR I’ve been describing this present as being centered on self-defense towards the price of well being care. And Lauren is an precise self-defense instructor. Has been one for thirty-five years.
And it seems self-defense — the way in which Lauren and her colleagues educate it — is NOT simply the hitting and the kicking. It’s defending your self towards every kind of … encroachment. Avenue harassment. Creepy co-workers. Simply standing up for your self. You may’ve observed, Lauren mentioned her group teaches individuals abilities for stopping harassment, abuse, and assault.
And abuse … I’m undecided that’s too sturdy a phrase for a way the health-care industrial advanced treats individuals.
So, Lauren herself is simply wrapping up an EPIC battle together with her medical health insurance. And he or she has been utilizing self-defense abilities all alongside the way in which. I’m not going into all the main points.
Lauren Taylor: There’s been so many issues. I truthfully can’t bear in mind all of them.
Dan: However we talked by means of them– as a result of she’s received ’em written down.
Lauren Taylor: That is additionally a self-defense factor, which is doc, proper?
Similar to you’ll with a stalker or a office harasser or, uh, even uh, An abusive associate, is doc every little thing as a result of, you may want it
Dan: You educate this within the class.
Lauren Taylor: Oh yeah.
Dan: I stroll in, suppose I’m gonna discover ways to want any individual within the nuts. And also you’re like, “get a pocket book.” I’m like, wow.
Lauren Taylor: Individuals, individuals do stroll in pondering they’re going to discover ways to, , knee somebody within the groin, and we do educate that. however I can’t let you know how usually in evaluations individuals inform us that they had been utterly blown away by all the opposite stuff that they study, which is de facto about empowerment.
Dan: Sure. Sure, please. Let’s have a few of that.
That is An Arm and a Leg — a present about the price of well being care. I’m Dan Weissmann. I’m a reporter, and I like a problem. So my job right here is to take probably the most enraging, terrifying, miserable points in American life– and YES, there’s a bunch of these, however I’m sticking with this one– and produce a present that’s entertaining, empowering, and helpful.
And right here we’re.
Right here’s Lauren’s deal: It begins the early Nineteen Eighties,
Lauren Taylor: I had saved up cash and I used to be gonna take a while and journey on my own. And a buddy of mine advised me a few self-defense class that she had taken. And I believed, “Oh, that’s a very good concept. I ought to in all probability do this if I’m going to journey on my own.”
Dan: She says it modified her life. Like, as a young person, she’d handled a LOT of road harassment. She figured, man, that’s simply the way it goes.
Lauren Taylor: And I had all the time thought that if anyone tried to rape me, there can be nothing I might do as a result of by definition they’d be greater and stronger than me.
And the true life-changing piece of the self-defense class was realizing that that was improper. It was realizing that I had energy and that I might harm any individual who was making an attempt to harm me.
Dan: How did that really feel?
Lauren Taylor: It’s, it’s completely life altering. I imply, even now, like, simply inform it to you. I nonetheless really feel like a rush of power by means of my physique saying it.
Dan: It’s thrilling. It’s like, holy shit! I’m not helpless
Lauren Taylor: Yeah. I can defend myself. Yeah. And I’ve energy and, and . A giant piece of it is also I’ve permission to do that and I should be protected.I deserve to have the ability to defend myself.
And all of these will not be messages that, you realize, most of us get rising up nonetheless. And positively not once I was rising up. So, it’s type of like, caught the fever after which wished to unfold the gospel of self-defense.
Dan: So, she’s been educating self-defense since 1985.
I requested her: So, how did it change your life– past the truth that you began educating it? Like, what did you do in a different way?
She says for starters, she did take that journey, and there was an evening or two that didn’t go in keeping with plan: Her place to crash fell by means of, she was out late, misplaced, just a little scared. And he or she took out a pen, so in case she wanted to harm any individual, she’d have a pen to harm them with. She did NOT have to make use of it, however having a plan helped her preserve cool.
However that wasn’t the large stuff. The massive stuff was standing up for herself in different methods. Like when her boss in a full-time volunteer gig began sexually harassing her.
Lauren Taylor: Whereas earlier than I’d have favored, you realize, suffered and wrung my arms and journaled about it and known as 12 pals and, thought possibly there was one thing improper with me and you realize, all of these issues I didn’t do, I used to be similar to, Actually no, don’t do that.
Dan: After which what occurred?
Lauren Taylor: Ge just about reduce it out.
Dan: YEAH. After which there was her mother. Who did NOT deal effectively with Lauren being homosexual. It was painful. After which there was the ultimate straw:
Lauren Taylor: We had a big household reunion and She didn’t invite my associate and he or she invited my siblings companions.
Jesus, ouch. They’d had lots of conversations. Now Lauren set a tough boundary. She put it in writing to her mother:
Lauren Taylor: There are some basic items I would like from you, or I’m not going to have the ability to keep involved with you. Proper. So, if there’s a household occasion, My associate will get invited , that’s self-defense
Dan: That first self-defense class Lauren took had not coated Dealing With Tough Household Members, however Lauren says she’d gotten the message:
Lauren Taylor: It was okay. to require sure sorts of respect from individuals. it was okay to be who I used to be, that wasn’t my fault that folks handled me as lower than all of that type of stuff.
Dan: And by the way in which, Lauren says the lessons she leads now, they DO cowl all that type of stuff.
In different phrases, self-defense covers a LOT of territory. The massive concept: In the event you’re in a tricky spot, you need some choices.
Lauren says she provides college students a five-part framework– 5 sorts of choices.
They’re: Run, yell, hit, inform, and go alongside.
And so they’re not all literal. Like, RUN is …
Lauren Taylor: Depart stroll away. Don’t present up for the appointment, break up with the individual, something that makes you not there.
Dan: And he or she says by YELL, she means: Use your voice.
Lauren Taylor: Assertiveness or deescalation or negotiation, or, you realize, that’s not okay with me or don’t come any nearer or, you realize, I gained’t come to household occasions if you happen to don’t invite my associate. Proper.
Dan: “Yell” covers lots of territory there.
Lauren Taylor: All the pieces together with your phrases just about.
Dan: All the pieces with phrases you employ with the opposite individual. As a result of there’s additionally TELL. Which she says imply — additionally actually broadly — get assist.
Lauren Taylor: It may be getting assist in the second. uh, this individual is bothering me. Can I stand with you? After which there’s, longer-term getting assist going to HR, going to a hotline, , speaking to a lawyer,
Dan: Posting to social media.
Lauren Taylor: Posting it. Proper. precisely.
Dan: Hit is — effectively, it’s truly hitting. They apply that too.
After which there’s the final one: Go alongside.
Lauren Taylor: We would like individuals to know that that’s an choice, proper? We’re not saying. All the time resist. We’re saying resistance is profitable far more than you’ve been advised and far more than you imagine.
However there are occasions when, going alongside, is the neatest and most secure factor so that you can do. And for instance, if somebody’s making an attempt to take your property, proper, if it’s a mugging, And also you wish to get out of there, unhurt, the neatest and most secure factor to do is to offer them your property.
Dan: Yeah. I feel you may in all probability see the broad outlines of how this might apply to wrangling together with your insurance coverage firm or preventing unfair medical payments. I imply, discuss a mugging.
It undoubtedly jogs my memory of one thing I mentioned once we began this self-defense collection: We’re not gonna win ’em all. We simply don’t must lose all of them both.
So, that’s Lauren’s framework.
Subsequent: Let’s study some SPECIFIC methods and the way we will begin making use of them. That’s proper after this.
This episode of An Arm and a Leg is produced in partnership with KFF Well being Information. That’s a non-profit newsroom protecting well being care in America. Their work is terrific, wins every kind of awards yearly. I’m so proud to work with them.
OK. Easy methods to truly USE self-defense methods with medical payments and insurance coverage BS.
We’ll begin with an instance from Lauren’s epic health-insurance battle this yr. We’re not gonna get into the story– it’s too lengthy, too bizarre, and it’s not even actually over. BUT we’ll zoom in on a second when Lauren’s on the cellphone and the opposite individual opens by throwing up a roadblock, saying, YOU in all probability did one thing improper.
I’m like, Argh, I’m already offended. What do you do now? And Lauren’s like, “I stayed on my agenda.”
STAYING ON YOUR AGENDA. This can be a complete self-defense factor. Lauren walks me by means of it:
Lauren Taylor: Right here’s the method. Okay. One thing’s taking place. You realize, like any individual is harassing you on the road or no matter …
Dan: Otherwise you’re calling your insurance coverage, and the opposite individual is being REALLY unhelpful.
She says you ask your self three questions, on this order: First, how am I feeling? It’s in all probability not nice.
Lauren Taylor: I’m terrified. I’m offended, I’m upset. I wish to cry. I really feel humiliated.
Dan: Good occasions. That’s the primary query: How am I feeling?
Second: What do I would like? Which is extra big-picture: Must get a secure distance, want respect.
Third, what do I WANT? That is extra particular– what would you like from the opposite individual:
Lauren Taylor: I need you to take your arms off me. I need you to take three steps again. I need you to knock earlier than you are available in my workplace. I need you to cease making racist jokes. no matter it’s, you flip it into what I need you to condemn, and that’s your agenda. What you wish to occur is your agenda.
So. Then once they do no matter people who find themselves misusing energy do, which is commonly. Guilt journey you or making an attempt to control you or blame you want, effectively, why had been you there? Why had been you sporting that? Why did you get drunk? Um, it’s only a joke. Um, why wouldn’t have mentioned it, if you happen to hadn’t blah, blah, blah, or why you being such a bitch?
Um, you realize, all of these issues are to get you into their net of dialog and off of your agenda and also you keep in your agenda. So if I say to you, don’t ask me about my private life whereas we’re at work. And also you’re like, Oh Lauren, you’re so delicate.
Dan: Yeah, I’m altering the topic. Instantly, we’re not speaking about what you need. We’re speaking about my notion of you. And you might have a reasonably sturdy impulse to deal with that– Like, “Oh, geez, am I?” Or, “I AM NOT”
Lauren Taylor: However as a substitute I’m simply going to say once more, “Pay attention, Dan, I requested you. I solely wish to discuss work at work. And I actually don’t like answering private questions at work. So please cease asking me.” That’s staying in your agenda.
Dan: And so how did that occur in these cellphone calls?
Lauren Taylor: I simply stored saying what I wanted or. I’d preserve saying so what’s the subsequent step? What can we do from right here?
So as an illustration, Lauren performed out an extended, lengthy set of calls together with her medical health insurance firm AND the state workplace that administers the Obamacare trade in Maryland, the place she lives.
At any time when they hit an deadlock, she requested, “What’s the subsequent step?” Ultimately, the subsequent step was: file an enchantment by means of the state lawyer normal’s workplace. Lauren known as, and the primary individual to choose up the cellphone didn’t have a super-encouraging opening line.
Lauren Taylor: She was like, effectively, I’m positive you missed a deadline. And, um, as a substitute of claiming, I didn’t miss any deadlines as a result of then we’re into her dialog.
I mentioned, so please inform me extra about the best way to enchantment. Proper? As a result of you realize, she in all probability talks to 100 individuals a day and, you realize, individuals make every kind of errors and you realize, it’s an enormous headache to her, I’m positive.
Dan: So Lauren didn’t take the bait. She stayed on her agenda… AND AFTER A WHILE, ONCE THE APPEAL WAS REALLY IN MOTION, Lauren observed the identical girl– who was now calling LAUREN with updates, typically greater than as soon as a day– was singing a distinct tune. Nicely, undoubtedly some new phrases.
Lauren Taylor: She was utilizing we language.
Dan: That’s what we like. Yeah,
Lauren Taylor: proper. So I used to be like, Oh, that is going very effectively. she was like, “we simply must determine this factor out after which we’ll allow them to know.”
“WE” language.
OK, that is nice.
AND it’s like: Wait, how do I truly do that? Like, within the second? Like, right here’s Amanda’s query once more:
Amanda Jaffe: I begin to get offended to some extent the place possibly it’s unproductive. So I would like some steerage the best way to stay cool when calling insurance coverage corporations.
Dan: YEAH. Me too! Me too.
And Lauren reframed it. She was like: OK, getting offended, that’s not an issue, not a mistake. It’s a sense that you simply’re having. And it’s a very affordable feeling to have.
And he or she says Amanda’s nailing it in saying: these emotions in all probability aren’t gonna be super-helpful IN this dialog.
So, you desire a technique. An agenda. A plan.
Lauren Taylor: In the event you can floor your self in the truth that you’re technique is to stay calm and assured whereas nonetheless being very assertive and chronic. that could be a technique, it doesn’t imply that you must really feel nice about what’s taking place. or that you simply aren’t upset the way in which that individuals are treating you. it simply signifies that as a method, you’re selecting to make use of this persona, this widespread, assured, assertive, persistent persona to try to get what you want.
Dan: So, yeah: You’re gonna be mad. That’s gonna occur. You simply don’t wanna act out these emotions within the dialog. So right here’s the precise ADVICE half: You are taking these emotions and…
Lauren Taylor: Do them someplace else. You, you realize, go for a stroll and pound the pavement. You vent to a buddy. Um, if in case you have a automotive, you roll up the home windows and drive on a freeway and scream. Um, you discover, you realize, you discover a place that’s in all probability not alcohol or ice cream too.
Um, To course of these emotions since you don’t need them simply hanging out in you both. That’s not good for you both.
Dan: Which is to say: It might be good to have a plan GOING INTO the dialog about the way you’re take care of these emotions afterwards. Possibly even make a plan with any individual else. You realize…
Lauren Taylor: Name a buddy or a member of the family who’s in your home and say, I’m going to get on the cellphone with the medical health insurance firm, and we’re going to name you afterwards and vent. Proper. After which, you realize, I’ve a spot for these emotions. It’s not that I’m squashing
Dan: Proper.
Lauren Taylor: There’s a time for that too.
Dan: I really like that. However in the meantime, right here I’m IN the dialog, and issues are getting bushy, and I’m HAVING A LOT OF FEELINGS ABOUT IT.
Not so calm, not so assured, NOT SO CALM.
Lauren’s like: Proper. Received you coated. You wish to discover a method that helps you shortly get calm and grounded within the second. She says being attentive to her respiration is her go-to, however
Lauren Taylor: My means of doing it could not be just right for you or her or any individual else. Individuals have to search out what works for them to remain calm and grounded. So only a few concepts. It may be, um, respiration. It may be feeling your toes on the ground. These are my prime two, nevertheless it additionally will be, you realize, some individuals saying a fast prayer helps them.
Dan: She’s received extra:
Lauren Taylor: It may be, orienting your self to the room. Like, what are 5 issues I can see or can I discover three blue issues? After which what’s one factor I can hear. What’s the one factor I can really feel, these orienting issues that preserve you very a lot within the current second and in addition let you realize, like, this can be extremely upsetting, however proper now I’m truly okay. Proper now on this second, I’m truly okay. You realize, I’m possibly scared about dropping my medical health insurance. I could also be scared about the place the cash’s going to return from. However if you happen to can say to your self, like, Oh proper now, I’m sitting in a room in my house and, um, you realize, My family members are round me or my pets are round me, or I’ve a plan for dinner or I’m going to name a buddy proper now I’m okay. So there’s a lot of methods to get current. and I feel that getting current is what can assist this girl and all people else.
Dan: What I hear you speaking about … Like while you say: “get into the current,” it’s like, I’m shifting my consideration. I’m shifting my consideration from this sense that I’m having that wishes to take up my whole discipline of consideration. And I’m type of like reminding myself that there are different issues to offer my consideration to. And now that I do know that I may give my consideration to my technique
I feel one factor that basically strikes me about what you’re saying is … it’s type of reframing the query. I begin to get offended to some extent the place possibly it’s unproductive and I feel the way in which that’s framed, is how do I not have the sensation? That’s how I’m studying the questions. The issue is I get offended. And what I’m listening to you say is like, not an issue.
Lauren Taylor: Not an issue
Dan: You’re getting offended.
Lauren Taylor: There are actually good causes to be offended
Dan: YES! For positive. So what you need isn’t to keep away from getting offended– it’s simply to keep away from getting uncontrolled. You in all probability ARE going to get mad. So that you wish to plan for it.
And to evaluate, Lauren’s prime two suggestions are:
One: Have a plan for what you’re gonna do with that anger AFTER the decision. How are you going to take care of it?
And two: Have a few favourite hacks for shortly re-focusing your consideration. To your breath, another sensation, no matter clicks for you.
You’re in all probability gonna wish to WRITE down these tips, apply them, earlier than you get on the cellphone.
I actually love this. And speaking to Lauren, I noticed: Being on the cellphone with the insurance coverage firm– or the medical-billing workplace or whoever else within the medical-industrial advanced you’re speaking with– we’ve received benefits we don’t have in another self-defense conditions:
One: You’re not in the identical bodily house with that different individual. They’ll’t see you scrunch up your face, or gently rub your coronary heart, or pet the cat, or silently rely to 10 whereas they’re speaking.
Which is completely different from being face-to-face with any individual who might harm you– bodily or emotionally.
And two: You don’t have an ongoing relationship with this specific individual. It’s not like telling your mother that you simply want her to ask your associate to household gatherings. Or telling your colleague to cease making racist jokes. These are relationships which might be going to maintain affecting you. And doubtless preserve affecting different relationships.
Right here, you’re like, WHATEVER, nameless insurance-company individual. Which doesn’t imply you may act like a jerk to them– that’s not going that will help you. However you do have an escape hatch. In the event you actually can’t take it any extra with out dropping your cool… you may grasp up and name again later, while you’re prepared, and inform the subsequent individual, GEE, I received disconnected earlier than.
I inform Lauren this, and he or she’s like
Lauren Taylor: Yeah, I used to be undoubtedly pondering, you realize, you may, if in case you have, if you happen to’re too crammed up with feeling to be doing one thing that feels helpful, you may completely say, you realize, I can discuss this anymore. I’ll name, name again one other time.
Dan: Oh yeah. Proper. You don’t have to love pretend, dropping the decision. You possibly can simply say like, wow. I feel I must, I would like a while to digest this. , I’d prefer to name
Lauren Taylor: I’ll name again later.
Dan: YES. I’ll name again later. That’s the place we left issues with Lauren Taylor within the fall of 2020, and it’s all nonetheless super-relevant — as I can attest proper now, with my back-and-forth calls to the hospital and the insurance coverage firm.
One replace: Since we talked, Lauren Taylor has revealed a e book!
Get Empowered: A Sensible Information to Thrive, Heal, and Embrace Your Confidence in a Sexist World was revealed in October 2023, and — though the title means that the e book targets people with one X chromosome greater than I occur to have — I’m wanting ahead to studying it.
We condensed a few of Lauren’s recommendation right into a First Support Package e-newsletter final yr — together with associated suggestions from different superstars. We’ll put a hyperlink within the present notes — you need to have the ability to discover it wherever you’re listening, and you may join any of our newsletters at arm and a leg present dot com, slash, e-newsletter.
We will probably be again in three weeks.
Until then, deal with your self.
This episode of An Arm and a Leg was produced by me, Dan Weissmann, edited in 2020 by Marian Wang, and for this re-release by Ellen Weiss.
Emily Pisacreta is our senior producer. Adam Raymonda is our audio wizard.
Gabrielle Healy is our managing editor for viewers — she edits the First Support Package e-newsletter.
Sarah Ballema is our operations supervisor. Bea Bosco is our consulting director of operations.
An Arm and a Leg is produced in partnership with KFF Well being Information.
That’s a nationwide newsroom producing in-depth journalism about well being care in America, and a core program at KFF — an unbiased supply of well being coverage analysis, polling, and journalism.
You possibly can study extra about KFF Well being Information at arm and a leg present dot com, slash KFF.
Zach Dyer is senior audio producer at KFF Well being Information. He’s editorial liaison to this present.
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Thanks a lot!
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